Foto: Majlinda Hoxha

Sve dok takvi odnosi budu prevladavali među društvima, političke elite će uspevati da skreću pažnju sa sopstvenih nedostataka i da održavaju korumpiran način upravljanja, smatra Besa Luci, glavna urednica portala Kosovo 2.0. koji objavljuje sadržaj na albanskom, srpskom i engleskom jeziku.

Luci je u okviru projekta portala Danasa „Druga strana Kosova“ odgovarala na naša pitanja, pitanja Jovane Gligorijević, novinarke nedeljnika Vreme, i pitanja čitalaca sa društvenih mreža. Projekat ima za cilj da približi kosovskoj i srpskoj javnost informacije koje nisu plasirale političke elite, ni sa jedne strane, već nezavisni građani javne i kulturne scene Kosova.

Prema Vašem mišljenju, šta treba da budu prioriteti kako bi se normalizovali odnosi između Srbije i Kosova?

– Izuzetno je važno da srpska država prizna zločine koji su se dešavali na Kosovu tokom devedesetih godina, koji su doveli do rata 1997-99. godine. Priznavanje zločina i nadoknada treba da dođe od strane vlade, ali je važno i priznanje srpskog društva u celini. Mislim da bi to otvorilo put za uspostavljanje pravog okvira i procesa normalizacije, kao i za rešavanje drugih otvorenih i problematičnih pitanja između Kosova i Srbije. Ali, ako pravda nije uistinu zadovoljena, onda ćemo nastaviti da svedočimo pokušajima da se problematizuju forme istorijskog revizionizma i nastavka zategnutih odnosa.

Šta mislite o procesu normalizacije koji trenutno sprovode vlasti u Prištini i Beogradu?

– Od samog početka, ovaj proces je obeležen nedostatkom jasne vizije, nedostatkom transperantnosti i nedostatkom istinskog interesa da se normalizuju odnosi između građana i društava. Rezultat toga jeste, kako mi se čini, da su se u proteklih godinu dana napetosti samo povećale. Mnogi postignuti odgovori tokom godina bili su više „na papiru“, nego što su olakšavali razmenu i saradnju. Raspravlja se o takozvanom konačnom sporazumu, a ne znamo šta je pod tim zaista zamišljeno.

Da li je moguće da će proces normalizacije okončati političke elite koje su bile aktivne tokom sukoba 1990-ih?

– Generalno, u regionu nam je potrebna promena političkih klasa. Sadašnje političke institucije doprinose održavanju podela i napetosti. Sve dok takvi odnosi budu prevladavali među društvima, te političke elite će uspevati da skreću pažnju sa sopstvenih nedostataka i da održavaju korumpiran način upravljanja. Povrh toga, imati političke vođe, koji su bile deo represivnih režima iz devedesetih, i koji sada vode procese normalizacije samo dovodi u sumnju verovanja u same procese.

Postoji snažna cenzura u medijima koja je karakteristična za sve zemlje regiona. Od koga najviše cenzura dolazi na Kosovu, prema Vašem iskustvu? Koje su najcenzurisanije teme?

– S jedne strane, mislim da postoji kombinacija autocenzure i politički povezanih medija. Određeni mediji su povezani ili ih finansiraju različite političke i / ili poslovne grupe, pa zato redakcije moraju da prate određene političke i ekonomske agende, postavljaju pitanja na pristrasan način, kao i da izostavljaju informacije, izvore ili uglove koji bi pružili tačniji prikaz događaja. S druge strane, nezavisni mediji koji pokušavaju da istraže korupciju na visokom nivou ili masovnu korupciju i / ili organizovani kriminal, zloupotrebe položaja vlasti, podložni su različitim oblicima zastrašivanja (bilo finansijskih, sudskih ili fizičkih pretnji). Ovi oblici pokušaja cenzure uglavnom dolaze od pojedinaca koji su povezani ili su deo političkih grupa i / ili interesima koji su povezani sa biznisom.

Imajući u vidu tragičnu prošlost između naših naroda, kao i trenutne pritiske političkih elita, jasno je da je saradnja srpskih i kosovskih novinara prilično slaba i predvodi je šačica medija. Šta biste poručili svojim kolegama iz Srbije?

– Generalno, urednici i novinari, u obe zemlje, moraju bolje razumeti građane. Prečesto mediji budu manipulisani ili vođeni od političkog establišmenta, koji nije često zainteresovan za istinsko podsticanje saradnje. Dakle, novinari ne bi trebalo da dopuste da na njih utiču politički narativi koje predstavljaju oni na vlasti, već treba da ih stalno preispituju. Jedan veoma važan način da srpske kolege to učine jeste da provedu više profesionalnog vremena u zemlji, da razgovaraju sa građanima, razumeju njihove stavove, da prepoznamo da naša društva nisu singularni homogeni entiteti, i da različitost kao koncept nije nešto što se primenjuje samo kroz etničnost, već i putem načina i pristupa mišljenja.

  • Pitanja novinarke nedeljnika Vreme, Jovane Gligorijević:
Foto: Medija centar

Kako biste ocenili kvalitet medija na Kosovu, naročito na albanskom jeziku, pošto u Srbiji ne znamo ništa zbog jezičke barijere – postoje li podele na progresivne i konzervativne, ko se obraća kojoj ciljnoj grupi, ko ima ugled, a ko čitanost?

– Uopšteno govoreći, mainstream mediji imaju tendenciju da budu konzervativniji u odnosu na formate koji se koriste, teme i pitanja koja se razmatraju, kao i perspektive i tačke gledišta. To znači da mainstream mediji imaju tendenciju da ojačaju tradicionalne norme i vrednosti, ili održe postojeći status političkih ili ekonomskih modela. Zbog toga se retko ide dalje od utvrđenih narativa, retko se nude alternativne ideje i modeli kao održiva rešenja. U proteklih nekoliko godina dolazi do porasta broja medija koji zauzimaju progresivniji pristup govorenju o ekonomskim modelima, društvenim vrednostima i normama, kao i oblicima političkog učešća i protesta. Takvi mediji, mislim, na kraju dostižu još specifičniju publiku, pa ne i nužno glavnu javnost. Kosovo 2.0 je primer. Ali dobar aspekt ovoga je što ovakve medije čitaju aktivisti, predstavnici organizacija civilnog društva, kreatori politike itd. Ti pojedinci mogu da se postaraju da se informacije pomeraju i da se na njih reaguje.

Kakvo je interesovanje ljudi od, na primer, 22 do 30 godina za političke i društvene procese, imaju li volju da se informišu ili angažuju i kako?

– Mladi u dvadesetim su prilično različiti. Ali generalno, rekao bih da je ova generacija veoma politički, društveno i građanski aktivna i uključena. To se vidi kroz različite pokrete i grupe – kao što su ženski i feministički pokret, zatim oni mladi ljudi koji su se bavili revitalizacijom zajedničkih prostora, oni koji se zalažu za poboljšanje standarda visokog obrazovanja, ili oni koji se bore za pitanja socijalne pravde. Neki imaju tendenciju da budu organizovaniji preko NVO struktura, ali postoje i mnogi drugi koji su više bazični i individualniji, što mislim da je veoma važno. Mnogo je onih koji se i politički više angažuju preko omladinskih foruma političkih partija, i nažalost ne donose progresivniji pristup politici. Ne vidim puno aktivizma ili angažmana koji dolazi iz grupa sa javnih univerziteta, recimo, gde starije strukture nastavljaju držati vlast, ili gde su studentske grupe politički više povezane s političkim strankama. Ipak, i pored toga, današnji mladi od svojih 20 godina polako doprinose preusmeravanju diskusija na pitanja i politike koje utiču na njihovo građansko blagostanje.

Ovde se bar pola društveno političkog života odvija na Tviteru. U Hrvatskoj je zastupljeniji Fejsbuk. Kako je na Kosovu i koju društvenu mrežu političari i javne ličnosti najviše koriste da se svađaju?

– Na Kosovu je Fejsbuk najpopularnija društvena mreža, kako za društvo u celini, tako i za političare i javne ličnosti. Međutim, u pitanju je u velikoj meri jednosmerna komunikacija zato što se političari i javne ličnosti ne upuštaju iskreno u raspravu i razgovore sa svojim biračima ili sa građanima.

  • Pitanja sa društvenih mreža:

Da li bi, po Vašem mišljenju, hapšenje svih kriminalaca iz regiona rešilo probleme Kosova?

U celom regionu, uključujući i Kosovo, potrebni su nezavisniji i efikasniji pravosudni sistemi i politička volja da se reše sistemi i strukture visokog nivoa korupcije i organizovanog kriminala. Prečesto, takve sisteme su uspostavili oni koji su na vlasti. Naravno, razotkrivanje takvih struktura i osiguranje funkcionisanja pravosuđa, od suštinskog su značaja za funkcionalnu vladavinu prava. Moramo shvatiti da je izgradnja i održavanje demokratije višeslojni, kontinuirani proces. Da bi doprineli rešavanju problema, borba za promene bi trebalo da se odvija istovremeno, za različite sektore i pitanja. Ne postoji jedno rešenje koje će rešiti i popraviti sve.

Da li postoji prava politička elita na Kosovu i ko su oni, prema Vašem mišljenju?

– Zavisi od toga ko se smatra „istinskom političkom elitom“. Ako o njima razmišljamo kao o onima koji osporavaju uspostavljene narative oko političkih, ekonomskih ili društvenih modela, vrednosti i normi – onda ti pojedinci nisu deo političke klase ili ustanove. Ti pojedinci se nalaze u različitim sektorima i u civilnom društvu – u različitim tipovima organizacija, u akademskim krugovima ili medijima, itd.

Da li na Kosovu postoji neko ko misli da bi Srbija i Kosovo mogli da regulišu svoj odnos modeliranjem odnosa koji postoji unutar EU? Na primer, Carinska unija, slobodan protok ljudi i robe i određene zajedničke nadležnosti u oblasti odbrane i spoljne politike.

– Najodrživije rešenje, o kojem se raspravlja u ovom pogledu, je ono u kojem su i Kosovo i Srbija punopravne članice EU, a svi odnosi – bilo da su politički ili ekonomski – definisani u okviru toga.

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ENGLISH VERSION

In your opinion, what should be the priorities for the sake of the normalization of relations between Serbia and Kosovo?

– I think that an extremely important step that the Serbian state should take is to recognize the crimes that were carried out in its behalf in Kosovo during the 1990s, leading up to the 1997-99 war. In this regard, recognition and compensation should come from the government, but recognition from Serbian society at large is also important and should be a part of this process. I think this would open the way for a genuine normalization framework and process to be established as well as for other open and problematic issues between Kosovo and Serbia to be addressed. But if justice is not truly served, then we will continue witnessing attempts at problematic forms of historical revisionism and continued strained relations.

What do you think about the process of normalization that is currently being  undertaken by the authorities in Pristina and Belgrade?

– Since the beginning, this process has been marked by lack of clear vision, lack of transperancy, and lack of genuine interest in normalizing the relations between the citizens and the societies. As a result, over the past year or so we have found ourselves in the situation, where tensions only seem to have increased, where many reached agreements over the years remain more on paper rather than having facilitated and easened exchange and cooperation, and where the so-called final agreement is being discussed but we do not know what it truly envisions.

Is it possible that this process of normalization will end the same political elites that were active during the 1990s conflicts?

In general, we need change of political classes in the region. By and large, the current political establishments in these countries mainly contribute to maintaining divisions and tensions, because the longer such relations prevail amongst societies, the longer they manage to deflect attention from their own shortcomings, or from their corrupt ways of governance. On top of it, having political leaders that were part of oppressive regimes from the 1990s lead current normalization processes just contributes toward genuine disbelief in the processes themselves.

There is strong censorship in the media that is characteristic of all countries in our region. In your experience, from whom does the censorship come in most cases in Kosovo? And which are the most censored topics?

– On the one hand, I think there is the combination of self-censorship and politically affiliated media. As certain media are affiliated to or financed by different political and/or business interest groups, this results in editorial newsrooms having to follow certain political and economic agendas, frame issues in biased ways, as well as omit information, sources or angles that would provide a more accurate representation of events.

On the other hand, independent media that seek to investigate high-level or large-scale corruption and/or organized crime schemes, abuses of positions and power are subject to different forms of intimidation (be it financial, judicial or physical threats). These are also forms of attempted censorship, and they mostly come from individuals who are connected with or are part of political groups and/or have business-vested interests.

Considering the tragic past between our two countries, as well as the current pressures of political elites, it is clear that the cooperation between Serbian and Kosovo journalists is quite weak and is led by a handful of media. What would you say to your Serbian colleagues?

– I would say that in general, editors and journalists in both countries need to better understand each other’s society from the perspective of citizens. The media too often end up being manipulated or driven by the political establishment, who are not necessarily interested in genuinely pushing forward the cooperation. So, journalists should not allow themselves to be influenced merely by political narratives as presented by those in power, but constantly question them. So one very important way for Serbian colleagues to do so is to spend more professional time on the ground; to speak to citizens, understand their points of view; recognize that our societies are not singular, homogeneous entities, and that diversity as a concept is not something that is demonstrated only through ethnicity, but also through ways of thinking.

  • Questions of Jovana Gligorijevic, journalist:

So as to evaluate the quality of media in Kosovo, especially Albanian media as there is a language barrier between us – is there a division between progressive and conservative media, who addresses which target group, are there specific people who are held in a certain regard or have the established reputation, and who is the most popular?

– In general, the mainstream media tend to be more conservative in relation to formats used, topics and issues tackled, as well as perspectives and points of view addressed. In this regard, for me conservative means that mainstream media tend to reinforce traditional norms and values, or the existing status quo of  political or economic models. Therefore, rarely going beyond established narratives; rarely providing alternative ideas and models as viable solutions to the issues.

In the past few years, there is an increase in the number of media outlets that are taking a more progressive approach to speaking of economic models, social values and norms, as well as to forms of political participation and protests. Such media outlets, I think, end up reaching still more specific audiences, so not necessarily the mainstream public. Kosovo 2.0 is such an example. But the good aspect of this is that such media are read for example by activists, civil society organizations’ representatives, policy makers etc., – so individuals that can make sure that the information has been pushed forward and acted upon.

What are the people aged between 22 and 30 interested in regarding political and social processes; are they interested in engaging and informing themselves and in which ways?

– The youth in their 20s are quite diverse. But in general, I would say that this generation is very much politically, socially and civically active and involved. This is seen through different types of movements and groups, such as the women’s and the feminist movement; then through those young people greatly involved in revitalizing public spaces; through those advocating for improved and higher educational standards; or through those who more actively fight for social justice issues. Some tend to be more organized through NGO structures, but there are many others that are grassroots and more individual-based, which I think is very important.

There are many that also end up being politically engaged mainly through the youth forums of political parties, and unfortunately, they do not really bring more progressive approach to politics. In this regard, we do not see as much activism or engagement coming from groups from the public universities, where, let’s say, older structures continue to hold power, or where student groups are more politically affiliated with political parties.

But all in all, I would say that by and large, today’s youth in their 20s gradually contribute to shifting discussions to issues and policies that affect their wellbeing as citizens.

At least half of the social and political life in Serbia takes place on Twitter. In Croatia, Facebook is the most popular social network. What is the situation in Kosovo and which social network is favourite among its politicians and public figures for arguing?

– In Kosovo, Facebook is the most popular social network, both for the society at large and for the politicians and public figures. However, it is very much a one-way communication – meaning that we do not see politicans and public figures truly engaging in debate and discussion with their constituents or with citizens.

  • Questions form social media:

In your opinion, would the arrest of all criminals from the region solve the problems of Kosovo?

– Throughout the region, Kosovo included, we need independent and more efficient judicial systems and generally political willingness to address systems and structures of high-level corruption and organized crimes. All too often, such systems have been established by those in power to begin with. Of course, exposing such structures and ensuring that justice functions is essential for the functional rule of law. But, in my opinion, we must remember that building and sustaining democracy is a multilayered, ongoing process. So while this would contribute toward solving some problems, the struggle and fight for changes concerning different sectors and issues should be taking place at the same time. One solution will not solve and fix everything.

Is there a true political elite in Kosovo and who are they, in your opinion?

– It depends on what we would call or think of as a „true political elite“. If we think of it as those that are challenging the established narratives sorrounding political, economic or social models, values and norms – then such individuls are not part of the political governing classes or establishment. Such individuals are spread out across sectors, and can be found in civil society – be it in different types of organizations, in academia, or media, etc.

Is there anyone in Kosovo who thinks that Serbia and Kosovo could regulate their relationship by modeling the relationship that exists within the EU? For example, the Customs Union, free flow of people and goods and certain joint competences in defense and foreign policy.

– The most viable solution discussed in this regard is one where both Kosovo and Serbia are full EU member states, and all relations – be it political or economic – are defined within such a framework.

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